José Cruz: Apart from politics the one thing that scares me the most, America is starting to lose, not just its rational actors in politics and in and in corporations, it’s losing its social base for understanding how a society works. (Right) which is that, you know, we disagree, but that’s ok. Let’s meet somewhere halfway in the middle (Right right)) and we’ll leave it to our children to keep doing the same thing because that’s how a- a civil society works how a democracy works. You compromise. (Yeah yeah) and this separation, uh into blue and red and left and right (Right) in America, much more so than than in other countries, where people don’t want to talk to each other and people don’t want to compromise um, it- it’s- that to me is the most worrying thing. (Right) Becausepronounced, “KUHZ” (0:40) once that disappears then the corporations and all of these people that want to just make money at the cost (Mm) of society will have completely won. (Right right) People are completely manipulated- manipulate- manipulatable. (Yeah) Um they can be told the the simplest lie. And because it’s it’s something that confirms their thought bubble (Yeah) about their supposed enemy, then they- they just run over to that side.

Yohanes Handojo: Right right right. And I think that’s also- that also- it’s the thing that makes America so beautiful, I think, in my opinion. I mean I talk a lot of crap about America. And um but I do, there is- there areYohanes corrected his grammar without losing his speaking pace (1:14) things that I think are just um, absolutely beautiful about that country. And I think- Um it is- we are in danger of losing a little bit of that I think. But that is the individuality, the the sort of like, aggressiveness, if you willIn this case, Yohanes uses the phrase to indicate to José that perhaps the word “aggressiveness” might not be the best word to use (1:31), that America has. In order to defend something (Ah) that they they uh root for, you know like, “This is what I agree with. (Mm-hmm) This isYohanes should have said “are” (1:42) my thoughts. (Mm-hmm) This is who I am.” (Mm-hmm) Um and they’re willing to um to lay it all out there, and just make it known. Um, however that does come to you know, with the price of having to compromise. Everyone has to compro- Everyone has to lose a little bit. They’ll win some but they’ll lose some as well. (Mm-hmm) Um and you know in- with this political climate, it- we- it it’s kind of being really split, like polarized. (Mm-hmm) Unfortunately that’s kind of saturated different points of view into sort of like a bubble (Mmm) and so “Oh you um, you’re a Republican you must think like this. Oh you’re a um a Democrat you must think like this.” And that’s just simply not true there are- a purple tint, and there’s uh there’s something orange about that red, and there’s something green about that blue, and it’s just that- it’s it’s not that simple. I don’t think.

José: Yeah yeah and people have lost that desire to find that (Right) tint. That that uh, I don’t want to say “taint” that’s a bad word. But like that that compromise basically. (Yeah yeah) They don’t want to, Uh, “No I’m a patriot. I’m I’m (Yeah) um I uh I read my bible every Sunday and so I don’t need to think about your ideas.” (Mm-hmm) I agree with you that was a really good thing about America. That people stood up for their ideas and were willing to say it, but at the same time, people were willing to listen and say that that’s (Right) what makes America beautiful. (Yeah) We all get that chance to say that. (Right right right) Now you say your ideas and you expect people to just agree with you.

Yohanes: Yup yup. Yeah and they do they- it’s a shouting contest. (Yeah) You know like, they shout at each other, yet no one listens to each other (Mm-hmm) So this uh this shouting becomes unnecessary you know, like you could be just whispering and they- they still won’t hear you um you could just say it normally you they still won’t hear you. You shout…

José: They don’t want to.

Yohanes: They don’t want toa good conversation skill is learning how to show agreement by repeating what your partner says word for word. Yohanes does this well. (3:40). Um you shout as much was you want, no one will hear you. (Mm-hmm) and that’s, I think that’s really really dangerous. Like people are starting to shift towards that- that kind of like that mentality and and um, I’m I’m afraid that’s- that’s what’s going to make you know, America turn into you know something that we don’t want…

José: Can’t disagree with you. It’s it’s I- I I know that you said you’re optimistic um, about humanity and the world and stuff like that, (Ha) but when it comes to America itself, I think we’ve got a little bit further to fall, before we start moving back up.